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They traded Nady?! (OFFICIAL TRADE THREAD)
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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is now the official Nady for Perez and Hernandez thread by virtue of it being the longest!
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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's why I like it....

the Pirates got horrible value for their two players. Which means we won the trade.

All y'all wanted to keep Milledge, you got him.

What other setup guy was out there to replace dirty?

How many 24-year old lefty arms blossom late?
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Ballpark_FrankX



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming from a guy who actually appreciated Nady for what he is (and I still don't get the defensive rap), under the circumstances filling out two needs with one player who recently has been getting out performmed by Endy Chavez, this is not a bad deal. It also brings the Lastings Milledge era to the fore. We have the best opportunity now with a double digit lead to work him into the line-up and prime him for the playoffs. I think this move helps to assist in that development.

As far as Oliver goes, right now, he may be Rick Ankiel for all it matters. The guy can throw with high velocity and let's face it, the Pirates as an organization is a bit of a shambles. So I wouldn't doubt that a change of scenery and a plan and some new life could help him out. Roberto I think will be fine and the Sanchez accident is a bad break but we should be alright with Roberto.
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FONZIE993



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPSchmack wrote:
What other setup guy was out there to replace dirty?


Scott Linebrink
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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FONZIE993 wrote:
JPSchmack wrote:
What other setup guy was out there to replace dirty?


Scott Linebrink


Linebrink:
-- Cost too much. He wasn't available for something reasonable. As evidenced by the fact that they wouldn't take Perez and Bell.
-- sucks vs right handed batters (.301 BAA, .883 OPSA)

Linebrink is a lefty specialist. Making BOTH trades made sense. But if we missed one, then the Linebrink one was the one to miss.
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FONZIE993



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why?

Batters are hitting better of Hernandez than Linebrink (.264-.243), and last year Berto hurt us in the 2nd Half
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FrankX_avier_Nady wrote:
Coming from a guy who actually appreciated Nady for what he is (and I still don't get the defensive rap), under the circumstances filling out two needs with one player who recently has been getting out performmed by Endy Chavez, this is not a bad deal. It also brings the Lastings Milledge era to the fore. We have the best opportunity now with a double digit lead to work him into the line-up and prime him for the playoffs. I think this move helps to assist in that development.

As far as Oliver goes, right now, he may be Rick Ankiel for all it matters. The guy can throw with high velocity and let's face it, the Pirates as an organization is a bit of a shambles. So I wouldn't doubt that a change of scenery and a plan and some new life could help him out. Roberto I think will be fine and the Sanchez accident is a bad break but we should be alright with Roberto.


I would say this is the perfect time for Edge to be brought back up, with our record, and the distance between us and the rest of the pack, Edge can ease into full-time work, there won't be that much focus on him with the media concentrating on Abreau's struggles, and I think Floyd might pull a Wright on him, make him carry his bags, or just hold his sack as he pees.

Oliver might be a force this year, if Pitt's pitching coach did screw with his mechanics. I like his stuff, and he's alot younger than Zamboid, so he might take to retooling easier.

Hernandez I don't like. He's, what, 41 years old, a choke artist, and he ruined my Mets/Jankees game last year. Prick!

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elotk



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prez, i was with you on every single point you made about Milledge in relation to the Zito discussion, but your reaching here. I liked Nady, but he is VERY replacable. The guy is an average corner outfielder, with some pop, but nothing else. By losing Nady, we lose a few homeruns, but we gain defense, speed, and the dropoff in hitting is probably no more than .020 points.

Nady is replacable, and has little upside, simple as that.


eLOT
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eharris25



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing more shocking to me that we got both Roberto Hernandez AND Oliver Perez for just Nady is that there's actually Mets fans complaining about the move. The again, why on earth should I be suprised by that?

You'd be hardpressed to find someone who was more on the Nady bandwagon then me from the day we got him. Chenzo maybe the only guy I remember off hand who was right there with me, which comes as no suprise since he's out on the West coast like me as knew all about Nady's potential.

But all of that aside, upon learning about Sanchez getting hurt and possibly missing the rest of the season it was obvious we needed to add an arm to the bullpen. I'm not sure what else was available but I am more than happy bringing Roberto Hernandez back to help fill the void left by Sanchez. In the end, I feel it will be up to Heilman to step up and remember how to pitch if we are to fully overcome to blow delivered by some drunk driver down in Miami late last night.

I was sensing that Willie was about to start playing Endy much more in RF (maybe even a full time platoon with Nady) anyway. Sending Nady to Pittsburgh made a hell of alot more sense to me then sending someone like Maine or Banniser would have.

Frankly, given the urgent need to replace Sanchez, I would've been fine had the deal been Nady for Hernandez straight up. Other teams wanted Hernandez, including the Yankees, so it would have come as no surprise to me if it seemed we had to overpay for him.

I cant even get into how excited I am that we got Oliver Perez in this deal on top of Hernandez. All that needs to be said about Perez has already been said. You either love the acquisition or you're just confused by stats. It happens. I can accept that.

GREAT FUCKING TRADE OMAR!!!

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FONZIE993



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eharris25 wrote:
You either love the acquisition or you're just confused by stats. It happens. I can accept that.

GREAT FUCKING TRADE OMAR!!!


Or we are worried that Perez won't regain form, and we traded our RF'er for Berto
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eharris25



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FONZIE993 wrote:
eharris25 wrote:
You either love the acquisition or you're just confused by stats. It happens. I can accept that.

GREAT FUCKING TRADE OMAR!!!


Or we are worried that Perez won't regain form, and we traded our RF'er for Berto


And like I said, given all that had transpired I wouldnt have been suprised or upset had it just been Nady for Berto straight up. To me, whatever we get out of Perez will be gravy.

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emptynetter95



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not like our right fielder was Ted Williams. He was a nice player, but replaceable- in the near term with Chavez, for the long term, Milledge.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

emptynetter95 wrote:
Its not like our right fielder was Ted Williams. He was a nice player, but replaceable- in the near term with Chavez, for the long term, Milledge.


Exactly. If you want to argue our bench is weakend I see your point. But I think we replaced our starting RF with comprable players in Endy and Milledge. What they lack in power will be more than made up for in speed and defense.

I still cant believe we got both Hernandez and Perez for just Nady. You don't even wanna know what I'd have been willing to include with Nady to get both those guys. Good thing I'm not the GM!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, because I don't like Endy as a Full Time Starter and I'm not sure Lasto is ready
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FONZIE993 wrote:
No, because I don't like Endy as a Full Time Starter and I'm not sure Lasto is ready


Legit concerns. But you can't argue that the defense in RF has been upgraded. Will we miss Nady's offense? I don't think so.

Would you have been more willing to give Pittsburgh a guy like Bannister or Maine instead of Nady?

Do you think we shoudl have brushed aside the loss of Dirty and tried to fill the void with internal options like Maine and Owens?

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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eharris25 wrote:
FONZIE993 wrote:
No, because I don't like Endy as a Full Time Starter and I'm not sure Lasto is ready


Legit concerns. But you can't argue that the defense in RF has been upgraded. Will we miss Nady's offense? I don't think so.

Would you have been more willing to give Pittsburgh a guy like Bannister or Maine instead of Nady?

Do you think we shoudl have brushed aside the loss of Dirty and tried to fill the void with internal options like Maine and Owens?


Chavez' OPS this year is only 20 points lower. I don't know if he can keep that up playing at all times. But Marrero has historically been a good hitter vs lefties, and therefore the two of them can cover Nady in my mind. And Chavez will be playing better D.

And there's always the chance that Milledge comes up to the big leagues and more relaxed having had a cup of coffee before, goes completely insane and hits better than Nady ever could.
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eharris25



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPSchmack wrote:
eharris25 wrote:
FONZIE993 wrote:
No, because I don't like Endy as a Full Time Starter and I'm not sure Lasto is ready


Legit concerns. But you can't argue that the defense in RF has been upgraded. Will we miss Nady's offense? I don't think so.

Would you have been more willing to give Pittsburgh a guy like Bannister or Maine instead of Nady?

Do you think we shoudl have brushed aside the loss of Dirty and tried to fill the void with internal options like Maine and Owens?


Chavez' OPS this year is only 20 points lower. I don't know if he can keep that up playing at all times. But Marrero has historically been a good hitter vs lefties, and therefore the two of them can cover Nady in my mind. And Chavez will be playing better D.

And there's always the chance that Milledge comes up to the big leagues and more relaxed having had a cup of coffee before, goes completely insane and hits better than Nady ever could.


I'm expecting Milledge to be called up and be starting in RF tommorow. I feel they'll give him every chance to hold down the RF job now that Nady's gone. Chavez and Marrero will see time as well, but Milledge should and I believe will benefit most by Nady being traded.

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FONZIE993



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have seen what part of the trade with SD, they didn't like
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theprez86 wrote:
They give up Nady for a guy (Hernandez) with a 1.63 WHIP and another (Perez) with a 1.83 WHIP?

What is Omar thinking?

<Wilpon>... and it wouldn't surprise me if Peterson had a hand in this charade either.


Perez is a potential top of the rotation guy. And a lefty to boot.

We held onto all of our real prospects (keeping fingers crossed), and added a potential ace (as a throw-in) for a guy who really was mediocre and didn't appear to have a long-term future with the club (Nady).

Robbed Pittsburg blind.

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eharris25



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBG wrote:
theprez86 wrote:
They give up Nady for a guy (Hernandez) with a 1.63 WHIP and another (Perez) with a 1.83 WHIP?

What is Omar thinking?

<Wilpon>... and it wouldn't surprise me if Peterson had a hand in this charade either.


Perez is a potential top of the rotation guy. And a lefty to boot.

We held onto all of our real prospects (keeping fingers crossed), and added a potential ace (as a throw-in) for a guy who really was mediocre and didn't appear to have a long-term future with the club (Nady).

Robbed Pittsburg blind.


Amazing how this isn't obvious to everyone, right?

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