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Why Not BringUp Oliver Perez
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Metsin07



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Why Not BringUp Oliver Perez Reply with quote

Give the guy a shot he had a strong outing in AAA. Who else you got dave williams? besides bannister whos not ready
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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason to keep Perez down there, is because if we call him up, he has to stay until the end of the season. We can't send him down without placing him on waivers.
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Wright4tw
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oliver Perez' career =
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I think his 2004 year was a career year and almost a fluke, he'll never get anywhere close to that form again. That's just my opinion. In all seriousness, he needs ALOT of work he'll be looked at in ST after much work with The Jacket.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPSchmack wrote:
The reason to keep Perez down there, is because if we call him up, he has to stay until the end of the season. We can't send him down without placing him on waivers.


Why?
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EASTWOOD444



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPSchmack wrote:
The reason to keep Perez down there, is because if we call him up, he has to stay until the end of the season. We can't send him down without placing him on waivers.


that and he needs more then 1 good outing before coming back up.. the risk of him not yet ready (with hisconfidence and everything) then having to put him through waviers is NOT worth it at all... he should sit in the minors the rest of the year and get nice and ready for spring of 07 where he has a shot be be one of our better pitchers if all is good

call up bannister if needed

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Last edited by EASTWOOD444 on Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wright why is it every time perez comes up you dump on him and say 2 years ago was a fluke. he was 22 then. he's 24 now. to be so vehement and persistent in your criticism of him seems foolish. he is still very capable of pitching well; he put together 6 or 7 great starts in the majors this year. he just has problems being consistent. i don't know how you can be so certain he has no career.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wright4tw wrote:
Oliver Perez' career =
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I think his 2004 year was a career year and almost a fluke, he'll never get anywhere close to that form again. That's just my opinion. In all seriousness, he needs ALOT of work he'll be looked at in ST after much work with The Jacket.


at 24 years old his career is "toast"... not too smart

type of guy who said halladay sucked early in his career too.. (24 years old)

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JPSchmack
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HireDePodesta wrote:
JPSchmack wrote:
The reason to keep Perez down there, is because if we call him up, he has to stay until the end of the season. We can't send him down without placing him on waivers.


Why?


he's out of options.
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HireDePodesta
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No he's not.

How do you think they sent him down earlier in the year? A number of teams would have claimed him.

Quote:

The Pirates are, quite literally, weighing all their options with struggling starter Oliver Perez.

General manager Dave Littlefield confirmed yesterday Perez "has options" remaining and could be demoted to the minor leagues without having to clear waivers.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HireDePodesta wrote:
No he's not.

How do you think they sent him down earlier in the year? A number of teams would have claimed him.

Quote:

The Pirates are, quite literally, weighing all their options with struggling starter Oliver Perez.

General manager Dave Littlefield confirmed yesterday Perez "has options" remaining and could be demoted to the minor leagues without having to clear waivers.


I don't understand how that is possible.

2002 16 games with SD (option year 1)
2003 24 games with PIT/SD (option year 2)
2004 30 games with PIT (option year 3)
2005 20 games with PIT (that's year 4)
2006 15 games with PIT (isn't this year five? WTF? How can he have options?)
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HireDePodesta
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a very little known rule that can give a player a 4th option.

I'm going to [CENSORED] up the explanation, so I'll let Keith Law explain.


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Quote:

"Contracts of Major League players who, prior to commencement of the current season, have been credited with less than five seasons in professional baseball ... shall be eligible for a fourth optional assignment, without waivers, during that season. For purposes of this Rule 11(c), 90 days or more on the Active List during a championship season shall constitute a 'season of service.' ... [if] a player is placed on the disabled list after the player has been credited with 60 or more days of service in any particular season, the Disabled List time shall be counted to the player's credit."

So what are we saying here?

* A player who is currently entering his fourth or fifth pro season and already has been optioned in three separate years gets a fourth option. Delmon Young has been optioned in three years (2004, 2005, 2006) and he'll get a fourth option in 2007, which he's doing his best to earn.
* A player who has missed one or more seasons to injury - meaning an entire season, or enough time to accrue fewer than 90 days on an active roster - may get a fourth option if, exclusive of those injury-shortened years, he has fewer than five full seasons in pro ball. A season in which he's on an active roster for 60 days or more and then gets hurt still counts as a full season, but a season in which he's hurt and then comes back and gets 60-89 days of service after the injury does not.
* Seasons spent entirely in short-season leagues (the New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, and Arizona Rookie Leagues, as well as the Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) don't count as seasons for the purposes of a fourth option.


Last edited by HireDePodesta on Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AaronHeilman



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres Perez this year:

5.1 IP 3 H 1 ER 9 K 3 BB (@MIL)

3.1 IP 6 H 5 ER 2 K 4 BB (@CIN)

4.2 IP 9 H 6 ER 4 K 5 BB (LAD)

6.2 IP 5 H 3 ER 9 K 2 BB (STL)

5.0 IP 10 H 5 ER 4 K 2 BB (@STL)

3.2 IP 6 H 4 ER 4 K 5 BB (PHI)

4.0 IP 3 H 4 ER 1 K 4 BB (@WAS)

6.0 IP 5 H 2 ER 5 K 5 BB (CIN)

6.0 IP 4 H 0 ER 4 K 3 BB (@AZ)

8.0 IP 5 H 2 ER 9 K 3 BB (HOU)

3.0 IP 9 H 5 ER 5K 0 BB (SD)

2.0 IP 5 H 9 ER 0 K 4 BB (@COL)

7.0 IP 7 H 2 ER 4 K 1 BB (STL)

7.2 IP 5 H 1 ER 5 K 1 BB (MIN)

3.2 IP 6 H 7 ER 3 K 7 BB (@LAD)


He can still be a quality pitcher...His high walk total is probably a result of the finess nonsense

7 Good starts, 8 bad ones

Hes very capable of turning it around

EDIT:

Added the teams pitched against

EDIT:

Looking at who he's faced, he hasnt had an easy go at it...Remember this kid doesnt get to pitch against the Pirates


Last edited by AaronHeilman on Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:15 pm; edited 4 times in total
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JBG



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AaronHeilman wrote:
Heres Perez this year:

5.1 IP 3 H 1 ER 9 K 3 BB

3.1 IP 6 H 5 ER 2 K 4 BB

4.2 IP 9 H 6 ER 4 K 5 BB

6.2 IP 5 H 3 ER 9 K 2 BB

5.0 IP 10 H 5 ER 4 K 2 BB

3.2 IP 6 H 4 ER 4 K 5 BB

4.0 IP 3 H 4 ER 1 K 4 BB

6.0 IP 5 H 2 ER 5 K 5 BB

6.0 IP 4 H 0 ER 4 K 3 BB


8.0 IP 5 H 2 ER 9 K 3 BB

3.0 IP 9 H 5 ER 5K 0 BB

2.0 IP 5 H 9 ER 0 K 4 BB

7.0 IP 7 H 2 ER 4 K 1 BB

7.2 IP 5 H 1 ER 5 K 1 BB


3.2 IP 6 H 7 ER 3 K 7 BB


He can still be a quality pitcher...His high walk total is probably a result of the finess nonsense

7 Good starts, 8 bad ones

Hes very capable of turning it around


Very good post. Excellent research.

Perez can still be a top of the rotation guy. He just needs time. 2007 sounds good to me. But not this year.

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AaronHeilman



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know how we can make Wright4tw happy

We all chip in and get him this:


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As he is still clearly bitter about the deal
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Wright4tw
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

machinegunfunk wrote:
wright why is it every time perez comes up you dump on him and say 2 years ago was a fluke. he was 22 then. he's 24 now. to be so vehement and persistent in your criticism of him seems foolish. he is still very capable of pitching well; he put together 6 or 7 great starts in the majors this year. he just has problems being consistent. i don't know how you can be so certain he has no career.



I simply have no confidence in his ability to be a quality pitcher. I can't belive no matter how the pitching coach's in Pitt messed with his delivery and tried to make him more of a pitcher and not a thrower that the majority of his lack of sucess is based on him not being able to control his pitches...much like Zambrano. His control only seems to be getting worse.

I also said 2004 was a career year and that he wouldn't come close to regaining that form, that's a pretty safe bet in my book. I've also said, on more than one occassion that yes it's possible he becomes a servicable pitcher with alot of work and i hope he does. I've said i liked the fact that we took a chance with him, just think we could of waited till the off season to make a deal for him if the Mets wanted to give Peterson another project.

What 6 or 7 great starts did he make this year? I see 1 great start all year and about 3 decent starts out of the 15 he made. I also see 6 out of 13 that he didnt even make it through the 5th innings.

Listen i never killed the Mets for wanting to try and fix Perez i just don't feel it's going to work out and definitly don't want to see them try to bring him up until Peterson has had the chance to work with him extensivly. Give him the best shot he has at makign a comeback and that's next year if he shows in ST that he's found some control and consistancy.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never doubt the ability of a young lefthander to show flashes of brilliance; flounder; get all fucked up in the head; lose his way mechanically and place one foot firmly in the pitching grave.........................ONLY......to find himself again and come out on the other side a solid big league pitcher.

Look at Al Leiter through the early stages of his career, he was all over the place. Then he settled in:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Randy Johnson took about 4 seasons to settle in

Offensively and defensively we are a better set for Perez...Imagine if he had all those first inning runs? He had 4 first inning runs this season in 15 starts, 3 of which game in 1 game

He has a career .074 GB/FB ratio, so our solid OF defense will help him

Hes a solid defensive player as well

The best thing about Oliver Perez is he was a THROW IN for a below average RF and our #8 hitter

He pans out great, if not, no big loss for us
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MeTzFaN86



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oliver will comeback strong this year....i see him getting a shot sometime before September...

he just pitched well in his last start...let him build on that...a couple more starts in AAA and he will be up here.....
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eom

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HireDePodesta wrote:
There's a very little known rule that can give a player a 4th option.

I'm going to [CENSORED] up the explanation, so I'll let Keith Law explain.


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Quote:

"Contracts of Major League players who, prior to commencement of the current season, have been credited with less than five seasons in professional baseball ... shall be eligible for a fourth optional assignment, without waivers, during that season. For purposes of this Rule 11(c), 90 days or more on the Active List during a championship season shall constitute a 'season of service.' ... [if] a player is placed on the disabled list after the player has been credited with 60 or more days of service in any particular season, the Disabled List time shall be counted to the player's credit."

So what are we saying here?

* A player who is currently entering his fourth or fifth pro season and already has been optioned in three separate years gets a fourth option. Delmon Young has been optioned in three years (2004, 2005, 2006) and he'll get a fourth option in 2007, which he's doing his best to earn.
* A player who has missed one or more seasons to injury - meaning an entire season, or enough time to accrue fewer than 90 days on an active roster - may get a fourth option if, exclusive of those injury-shortened years, he has fewer than five full seasons in pro ball. A season in which he's on an active roster for 60 days or more and then gets hurt still counts as a full season, but a season in which he's hurt and then comes back and gets 60-89 days of service after the injury does not.
* Seasons spent entirely in short-season leagues (the New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, and Arizona Rookie Leagues, as well as the Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) don't count as seasons for the purposes of a fourth option.


Jesus. That is a great find. I'm confused because I think this should be year five and not year four, but I must confess I know little of the official obscure rules. If only MLB made their Blue Book public, i'd buy a copy, memorize it and get a job as Asst. GM somewhere.
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