We've Moved: Metsrefugees.com

jmb9191 · Daddy's Little Girl Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 11489

Include Pedro, just because what he did for the revival of the orginization....

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IceySpoons · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 5922 Location: Los Angeles, CA

I love Glavine for his last few years, but I don't think I put him on a 50 greatest Mets list...He'll still always be a Brave to me, at least until he wins us a World Series.

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charlie_obrien_fan · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 4379 Location: RFK

IceySpoons wrote:

I love Glavine for his last few years, but I don't think I put him on a 50 greatest Mets list...He'll still always be a Brave to me, at least until he wins us a World Series.

I totally am with you subjectively, but objectively he should probably be there.

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“Once you start winning, ... you don't want to stop. You don't want to lose.” -Davey Johnson

IceySpoons · Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 5922 Location: Los Angeles, CA

I guess my whole point was that the Mets are so short on a)quality homegrown talent, b)players who stuck around for a long time, or c)players who had a huge impact on the team, even in a short period that once you start talking about the 50 greatest Mets in history (a relatively short and sometimes pretty embarrassing history, i might add), you're going to start reaching for guys like ordonez, gregg jeffries, and bret saberhagen, none of whom ever really did anything for the team.

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ugottaBelieve · Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 3527 Location: Mohave desert

Listen you name the 50 greatest Skanks but omit ALL stats prior to 1962... they'll be more HOFers at the top, but by the time you're down to the last five, you'll be reaching.

After all, when a team has a great player and they keep him, that can block a postion of 5-10 years.

untitledproject · Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject:

Damn, I still cant find that Ordonez highlight reel. Anyone ever see it?

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m2c2c2 · Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject:

er...what exactly are the rules for the 50 Greatest Mets thing? Do they have to have been here some number of few years? Can they all be left fielders or is it spread among the positions?

I vote for Willie Mays.

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DjPiLL · Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject:

m2c2c2 wrote:

If you didn't see Rey play, you wouldn't see how huge he was to that team with the D.

Rey won three gold Gloves. Other than Hernandez, the Mets haven't had a player earn more than one in 44 years.

The problem with Rey was... his defense got SIGNIFICANTLY worse after he "bulked up".

He went from a good glove with a crap bat to an average glove with still a crap bat.

m2c2c2 · Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:53 pm Post subject:

UNTITLEDPROJECT wrote:

Damn, I still cant find that Ordonez highlight reel. Anyone ever see it?

Jesus....I searched googled Rey Ordonez image and this came up:

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nymdan9 · Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 4271 Location: Long Island

I wonder where Wright & Reyes will end up on this list

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Avier525 · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 1009

People are knocking Ordonez a bit too much. He wasn't at SS due to his offensive capabilities. He saved more runs than any other shortstop that I can remember. The team he was with made the World Series. Had the team been stacked the way it is now, Ordonez being a "failure" wouldn't even be a point of conversation.

He is the best, aside from Ozzie, that made the position look good. No one can replicate his rollover, slide, knee throws like he did. You have to give some credit, people.

FONZIE993 · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:54 am Post subject:

Avier525 wrote:

People are knocking Ordonez a bit too much. He wasn't at SS due to his offensive capabilities. He saved more runs than any other shortstop that I can remember. The team he was with made the World Series. Had the team been stacked the way it is now, Ordonez being a "failure" wouldn't even be a point of conversation.

He is the best, aside from Ozzie, that made the position look good. No one can replicate his rollover, slide, knee throws like he did. You have to give some credit, people.

The team never made the WS with him, he missed most of 2000 with a Wrist Injury

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charlie_obrien_fan · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 4379 Location: RFK

Ordonez had a career OPS+ of 60. That's about as bad as it gets offensively. Even Rafael Santana had a career OPS+ of 69.

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“Once you start winning, ... you don't want to stop. You don't want to lose.” -Davey Johnson

Avier525 · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 1009

FONZIE993 wrote:

Avier525 wrote:

People are knocking Ordonez a bit too much. He wasn't at SS due to his offensive capabilities. He saved more runs than any other shortstop that I can remember. The team he was with made the World Series. Had the team been stacked the way it is now, Ordonez being a "failure" wouldn't even be a point of conversation.

He is the best, aside from Ozzie, that made the position look good. No one can replicate his rollover, slide, knee throws like he did. You have to give some credit, people.

The team never made the WS with him, he missed most of 2000 with a Wrist Injury

Shit! I forgot, thats when Phillips brought in Bordick. Whoops. You still have to give the guy some credit.

FONZIE993 · Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:03 am Post subject:

another Comparison for Ordonez, Dontrelle Willis has a Career OPS+ of 57

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charlie_obrien_fan · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 4379 Location: RFK

Avier525 wrote:

You still have to give the guy some credit.

I'll give him credit for three years of gold glove defense. But overall, he was still a liability, especially when his defense started to go downhill after that.

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“Once you start winning, ... you don't want to stop. You don't want to lose.” -Davey Johnson

Avier525 · Joined: 15 May 2006 Posts: 1009

charlie_obrien_fan wrote:

Avier525 wrote:

You still have to give the guy some credit.

I'll give him credit for three years of gold glove defense. But overall, he was still a liability, especially when his defense started to go downhill after that.

That's all I was mentioning. Did he do wrong by knocking the fans? Absolutely! But no one can knock what he did for this team defensively.

joeidaho · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 1881

Ordonez is one of those guys who wore out his welcome quick. People tolerated him early on because his defense was so spectacular and there was always this feeling that his offense would gradually improve. But his offense actually got worse, and his defense slipped from out-of-this-world to simply terrific - and after a while, Mets fans got tired of having two pitchers batting at the end of the order.

ugottaBelieve · Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 3527 Location: Mohave desert

m2c2c2 wrote:

er...what exactly are the rules for the 50 Greatest Mets thing? Do they have to have been here some number of few years? Can they all be left fielders or is it spread among the positions?

I vote for Willie Mays.

Mets career only counts. Regardless of position.

I personally want to see them as Mets at least three years before they go on the list (explains how Beltran had perhaps the best year ever by a Met and he's not on my top 50---yet.)